Ultimate Debian

[ryanvade]

Exactly!!! I was working with a program that (In my Guinea Pig wanted topic. Anyone going to try that for me?) and it uses libav*. The problem is that the libav* on Ubuntu is 0.8.6. THIS IS REALLY OLD, AND THIS IS 13.04!!! The newest version(like Arch uses) is 9.5!!!!! I am having considerable issues with this program on Arch because it is designed for 0.8.*. And the program was released THIS YEAR!!! UGH!!! This is why developers should not focus on Ubuntu. It uses OLD software.

[Driver]

Xfce4.10 is available in experimental i guess..!
If i decide to go with debian ... i will build xfce 4.12 on daily basis.

Sounds like a worthwhile task (and a bit of work). I saw that several Xfce and associated components showed up in my Update Manager a few days ago; from the version numbers, I can tell that at least some of them are by way of one of the Xfce PPAs I added to my sources. I was about to accept them when I read something about a little shutdown bug. I'm now wondering if that bug would appear if I updated. Things seem pretty good now - I think I might wait another week or else try a little cherry-picking with the updates and see if the ones I accept play well with the older versions of the ones I do not.

But its just that i am lay to config debian.. so use ubuntu..saves a lot of time..!

I can see where using Ubuntu as a base/starting point could potentially save someone effort - after all, they do appear to do some good things. Unfortunately, I am not savy enough to be able to tell their good things from the bad, with the exception of some of the more glaringly obvious cr@p such as clouds, treating their users' data as a commodity and deciding to make a profit from it, their desktop environments... little things like that.

I dont think TheeMahn will go with mint ever after Ultimate Edition 3.1 if i am right.

3.1... Was that the one when Thee was indisposed, so... Can't remember his nick, the PC linux guy... Someone decided to finish it for him and the result was somewhat of an anomaly (since no other edition of Ultimate Edition struck me as being reminiscent of a train wreck, only without the screams and "rending of man and machine" (okay, there might have been some screaming, lol). Or was that Ultimate Edition 3.0?

That's not exactly what stable means..if you are going to go for the latest versions it will be almost automatically be labeled "unstable". Stable is proof through testing on multitudes of machines in various scenarios. This is why you see Debian take forever. Mint is no more stable than its Ubuntu or Debian counterpart. It is not Mint XFCE that is being so unproblematic, it is XFCE. You don't find that same reliability so much when you are working with Cinnamon.

I get that Debian sets the "stability bar" higher. But the fact that a computer somewhere in East Redneck Holler hasn't been tested and found fully compatible with something does not necessarily mean that that thing is unstable, and I (personally) would not automatically classify it as such.

And, as much as it pains me to type it, I wouldn't make one of the requirements for a "stable" classification "Is so old it will run with no problems on your (great-)grandmother's computer." OtOH, I do find it admirable that they do maintain a cohesive group of things that will run on Old Bluehair's ancient device. I just wouldn't name that thing "Stable" and then call everything else "Unstable" and/or "Experimental." I would, perhaps, decide to call a thing a thing and label Granny's OS "Old." I might, then, go on to name the portion that has been tested and found to work on a sampling of... some percentage of the computers thought to be in use today, but not the newest (that I'd call bleeding edge) or the oldest.

The version of Ultimate Edition that I had trouble with had two versions (front-ends?) of some things, including the update manager. One of those was Mint's. It annoyed me at the time, the way it was set up with a numerical ranking system and hiding some updates. But now that I have tried Mint for a time, it has grown on me. I've set it to display ALL applicable updates and to (semi-)automatically install those marked 1-3 (when I click on the button). The 4s and 5s I can look at and consider. 1 = certified, tested/maintained; 2 = recommended, tested/approved; 3 = not tested but believed to be safe; 4 = untested, not safe, potentially affecting stability; 5 = dangerous, known to affect stability depending on hardware.

My guess (probably wrong) is that #s 4 and 5 would only appear in "Experimental." With the distro that I'm using, they're there (but hidden by default) and I can make a simple setting adjustment to decide how experimental I want my stable system to be, lol.

Hmm... If it were me making the decision at Debian, I'd probably call them "Bleeding Edge," "Mainstream," and, err... "Trailing Edge," lol. But I'd just use the images those names bring to mind as something to think about when I was deciding the default level of updates. Probably other things, too, like not defaulting to a desktop that requires 3D graphics acceleration and a powerful multi-core CPU in "Trailing Edge," but... I'd probably not call for a separate "On Your Head Be It" version; I'd just mark those packages as "Untested (or not sufficiently so)" and make them available to everyone. That would get them tested . I would have to make an easy-to-use and robust "Panic Button" to uninstall the last set of updates should the user find him/herself with a show-stopper.

I guess putting together and maintaining a distro is a lot of work, now that I think about it. Maybe I'd require things to be of shaving age before I let them into stable, call things that are only a couple of years old "testing," and anything that was written/changed since my last birthday "experimental," too.

3. This pretty much sums up how I feel http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=83321&start=30

Entertaining thread. However, after having read it, I cannot guess whether you're for it (Debian) or not. It was kind of like watching people chat around the water-cooler...

...in a soap opera. I would guess that Debian users are normally nicer people and less prone to hurl insults starting in the second post of threads?

Actually, looking at your specs Driver, you might be better off getting on the Debian train before the Ubuntu/Mint train strands you at the station.

Yes, I know what you mean. Kind of looks like I'm trying to argue away the one distro that'll be most likely to be usable (by me) in a year or three, doesn't it? And the specs in my .SIG are somewhat out of date - and not in a good way - at present.

When I remove Mint for something else, it'll most likely be back to Ultimate Edition. One of the versions that has Xfce, hopefully.

[/RAMBLE]

[pam]

Driver i agree with you.

Debian has the most hardware support, even more than windows.

The new debian is more like freeBSD. Rigid enough for the advanced desktop user and unquestionable choice for servers.
But still not a preferred choice for desktop users looking for bling. Also any new hardware does not mould well with Debian. Im not
saying its bad but its like buying a car without wheels. With Arch, Ubuntu and Gentoo the first time is the last time, you do not need
to retrace your steps for the build and install and assume you did something wrong. A fresh Debian install even lacks core programs like gcc and make.
Compiz cube on Debian is far fetched. I can get it to work in 15 minutes provided i install the dependencies on which my graphics card
drivers depend upon...not really productive. For some programs i even have to go to the extent to add squeeze repos to the sources list.
And the deprecated messages i get, makes me mad.

For the Xeons and Opterons i'd recommend Debian as much as FreeBSD ....and without breaking a sweat.

Building an OS off Debian is easier than Ubuntu, but adding bling is easier said than done and something ubuntu/Arch do not have any problems with.

Just my experience and thoughts....

Maybe im completely wrong and my insight might change once 7.x.x gets released and the repos get bigger.

[Micro]

First off I would like to say that I am very passionate about Debian. So please don't anyone be offended as my ranting begins. pam I would love to know what new hardware that doesnt work with Debian. Every worth while graphics card has Linux drivers. And the fact remains that installing the propriatary drivers yourself will get you the best experience anyways, regardless if on Ubuntu or Debian. Way easier to install on Debian. lol Last week I installed 13.04 on a spare laptop, just to give it a chance. Guess what? I had to manually install graphics driver and wireless driver. No biggie I would do the same for Debian. But what a slow less the pleasing experience it was. Just to open firefox took 15 seconds and nautilus was a dog too. Went right back to Debian the next week. I will put this as politely as possible, I feel bad for people that use Ubuntu. And for the eye candy, not an issue. Compiz works better on Debian. I would love to be proven otherwise. But the most important factor is, what Desktop is being used. I will literally put MATE on Sid against any Ubuntu and destroy it on every aspect. Stability, speed, and compiz runs so well you will think you were using an older Ubuntu. ( I remember the good old Ubuntu days. Sad times now) Ubuntu is and will become as wack as Windows is today. Just a tad bit quicker. For the experienced desktop users, Debian takes the cake. Oh I almost forgot. By the time Ubuntu users are done dealing with all the bugs of Ubuntu, your Debian desktop will still be running sound. And on half the resources too. And I'm sure all are wondering why I support Ultimate Edition. Well I use to be the kid waiting for every release of Ultimate Edition to come out. I would check Central every day after a new Ubuntu was released. Because I knew that Thee was going to turn it into a well driver supported, bad a$$ themed Ubuntu. And Ultimate Edition would always be better than Ubuntu release and save me time on getting it where I wanted. And that remains the fact today. But I just do not like what Ubuntu has become. And the more experienced I've become, leads more further away from Ubuntu. Iol I know I'm not alone, many other distro's have already switched to building from Debian. Gives them less time dealing with all the Ubuntu bugs. I mean really, what is the percentage of issues that is solely related to Ubuntu on these forums? That would be a shocking figure...

[Xanayoshi]

Driver..if those specs are true..I don't think you can even run Ultimate Edition. Maybe 3.5 using XFCE, with XWM4, but compiz will most likely break you. You should be able to run 3.4 Lite using metacity, but again..avoid the compiz. This is where Debian shines...although, admittedly, I have had more problems with stable wheezy than I ever did unstable. The trick with low specs is to utilise your RAM for function. You lose this with too much theming on any Gnome platform...even with Mate. There is no difference here..install XFCE on whatever, that's what it is for. I prefer enlightenment and...lol..Fallback on low spec Debian.

Mint is not "Special" and it is not non-Ubuntu. Try this if you don't believe me...

Code: Select all

sudo apt-get install cinnamon

I'll be laughing hysterically as you try to figure out how you just installed Ubuntu(Unity) with that command.

If you want to run the latest XFCE on Debian http://ftp.spline.de/mirrors/siduction/iso/firestarter/xfce/siduction-13.1.0-firestarter-xfce-amd64-201305202241.iso that will do it.

or install on any other Siduction
http://forumubuntusoftware.info/viewtopic.php?f=125&t=9219


It sounds like a challenge, this whole Compiz on Debian thing.....
Prepare for the irony when I say the easiest way I would set this up is to use Micro's OS.

[ryanvade]

I am going to say what everyone is thinking. Canonical is becoming another Microsoft. It is that simple.

In all honesty, the last time I ran Debian was around a year ago. I like it, but prefer other systems. I started off with Debian around 6 years ago. Moved to Ubuntu a few years later. Found Ultimate Edition. LOVED IT. The site went down for a while and I switched to Oz Unity. LOVE IT TOO. Lately I have preferring systems that provide challenges. Mainly Arch. Just like Debian you start off with a base but yet it still tries to automate things more then I like. Fedora had gotten on my nerves recently, not working right on my dual screen desktop. I guess I just like systems that I can build my self.

Is that odd?

[pam]

First off I would like to say that I am very passionate about Debian. So please don't anyone be offended as my ranting begins. pam I would love to know what new hardware that doesnt work with Debian. Every worth while graphics card has Linux drivers. And the fact remains that installing the propriatary drivers yourself will get you the best experience anyways, regardless if on Ubuntu or Debian. Way easier to install on Debian. lol Last week I installed 13.04 on a spare laptop, just to give it a chance. Guess what? I had to manually install graphics driver and wireless driver. No biggie I would do the same for Debian. But what a slow less the pleasing experience it was. Just to open firefox took 15 seconds and nautilus was a dog too. Went right back to Debian the next week. I will put this as politely as possible, I feel bad for people that use Ubuntu. And for the eye candy, not an issue. Compiz works better on Debian. I would love to be proven otherwise. But the most important factor is, what Desktop is being used. I will literally put MATE on Sid against any Ubuntu and destroy it on every aspect. Stability, speed, and compiz runs so well you will think you were using an older Ubuntu. ( I remember the good old Ubuntu days. Sad times now) Ubuntu is and will become as wack as Windows is today. Just a tad bit quicker. For the experienced desktop users, Debian takes the cake. Oh I almost forgot. By the time Ubuntu users are done dealing with all the bugs of Ubuntu, your Debian desktop will still be running sound. And on half the resources too. And I'm sure all are wondering why I support Ultimate Edition. Well I use to be the kid waiting for every release of Ultimate Edition to come out. I would check Central every day after a new Ubuntu was released. Because I knew that Thee was going to turn it into a well driver supported, bad a$$ themed Ubuntu. And Ultimate Edition would always be better than Ubuntu release and save me time on getting it where I wanted. And that remains the fact today. But I just do not like what Ubuntu has become. And the more experienced I've become, leads more further away from Ubuntu. Iol I know I'm not alone, many other distro's have already switched to building from Debian. Gives them less time dealing with all the Ubuntu bugs. I mean really, what is the percentage of issues that is solely related to Ubuntu on these forums? That would be a shocking figure...

Im using an 880g northbridge with SB710 set up with RAID0 (mdadm) with Debian. From the looks of it the system will never break unless i want to change the OS.
At work i got my hands on 990FX board with SB950 and RAID10. So i decided to install debian and my GPU(radeon 6790) in it.
Everything went fine. I installed the drivers and it gave me errors: make and gcc is not installed( same as my 880g). Some more fglrx dependencies not installed. Looked it up and got a solution from ubuntu forums. Everything went perfect. Before this i tried with llvmpipe. Llvmpipe is way cooler than prop drivers but has no
power saving features(a gallium problem). So finally it all worked out. Next i needed some desktop rendering and shadows, went on and installed xcompmgr.
The time came to install compiz. Installed the dependencies too and got it working. All this took me 2 days. Had i known this before, i wouldnt have complained so much. It takes me less than half this time to set up arch. So just for installing dependencies i ranted.

[Xanayoshi]

Off-Topic :

[Xanayoshi]

[tanmay.01]

First off I would ....... That would be a shocking figure...

How to install AMD Switchable graphics drivers on debian.
I need ia32-libs to compile them. And in debian sid they have been depricated .. and the debian community offered no help.
There is no guide even for the stable. DO you know any...?